Evolution

[Captain Awesome]

werwoof said:

Yup.

You're serious?

[Blastgirl]

littleguy29 said:

So, then, would you agree that the Bible is not a credible source for evidence to be used in logical arguments?

I doubt anybody is saying that. I think all they're saying is the Bible has more than one author and therefore there may be varying views of some things.

Time is somewhat different too. Not by huge amounts but the calendar we use now was developed by Pope Gregory. Therefore it's called the Gregorian Calendar.

So the date of the crucifixion wouldn't necessarily be two thousand and seven years ago but there's still guidelines from there. There's one very simple example that doesn't require profound discussion.

[werwoof]

"So, then, would you agree that the Bible is not a credible source for evidence to be used in logical arguments?"

Wow! that's quite a leap from anything I said. In fact, it's exactly the opposite of what I said. I don't think you're too familiar with logic.

I added some stuff to my post. You can go back and read it, if you want. ;D

[jesusaurus]

werwoof said:

jesusaurus said:

I'm getting tired of this jesusjunkie, werwoof...

So you think that lewa meant for only one point of view to be discussed? Maybe you should look up "forum" in the dictionary. ;D

Nope. I just don't like you plain n' simple.

[jesusaurus]

werwoof said:

jesusaurus said:

Nope. I just don't like you plain n' simple.

I'll get over it. ;D

Ok ;D

[jesusaurus]

werwoof said:

jesusaurus said:

Nope. I just don't like you plain n' simple.

I'll get over it. BTW, that was a real logical, thoughtful argument. ;D

I really don't see a reason to have great argument about why I don't like you... in this case the simplest answer was the right one.


Edit: Werwoof, what do you do for a living?

[jesusaurus]

No, my brain usually hurts after eating ice cream too fast or trying to learn calculus on my own.

[jesusaurus]

Wait hold on, are you calling me stupid? If you are I must say I will burst out laughing. This coming from the guy who thinks men and dinosaurs were around at the same time. rofl

Edit: My parents were talking about Elton John so I seemed to recall a topic you posted in. Care to explain this?

werwoof said:

He is a vile pervert. Sir Elton, my left foot! Ecch.

legoman.proboards18.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=tv&thread=1171954443&page=1

[Peon]

I'm still awaiting your answer to my question regarding mutations, werwoof.

[Captain Awesome]

werwoof said:

"So, then, would you agree that the Bible is not a credible source for evidence to be used in logical arguments?"

Wow! that's quite a leap from anything I said. In fact, it's exactly the opposite of what I said. I don't think you're too familiar with logic.

Um, I am, actually, and I wasn't referring to you in my post.

The Bible was written by many different people, yes? And in several different languages, which all translate a little differently, yes (not to mention the many different versions of the Bible)? So, given this, there are many different accounts of what actually happened. My main point is, how can I be sure beyond reasonable doubt that everything in the Bible is accurate? As many people have already said, this is basically impossible... not everything in the Bible is true.

Now the question is: what in the Bible is true, and what isn't true? Many different people will give you many different answers. This does nothing to answer my question - I still have no idea whom I should trust. To me, it seems that there is no feasible way to resolve my dilemma. Logic is based on fact, and fact is based on proof... there is no way to prove what is right and what is wrong in the Bible, therefore, I am forced to conclude that nothing in the Bible is completely credible.

Logical arguments need to be based on observable fact - since the Bible is not credible, I cannot count it as fact. THEREFORE I cannot use the Bible as a credible source of facts in a logical argument.

QED

[Mahnarch]

[Edit: I just 'got' it. Earl was talking about the Lancer Evo IV automobile (notice the 'innocent smile' in the OP).
I'd love to have one. Stage three'd, with level two turbo, dropped to the ground and winged out........nice.

Ok, on with my original, ignorant post.]


I like christianity. I really do.
It's the reason I can leave the keys in my car or motorcycle all day long and leave my house unlocked when I'm away.
The people are friendly and tightly knit, especially in a small community like mine.

BUT(!), they do it for a reason....
"You're going to go to Hell!"

Now, step back for a second and think:

Would you rather be a good person and do good things out of fear of retribution/looking for a reward from some omnipotent, all powerful person?
Or, would you rather be a good person and do good things because it's morally the right thing to do?

God, or no God, I'd rather just live a 'morally right' lifestyle.
I don't give a second thought about any book.

Athiests (at least me, anyway) do things out of kindness and morality.
(Some) Christians do things out of fear - as do Hindus, Muslims, Jews, and Angelina Jolie.

I volunteer at the mission out of kindness and as a favor for a friend.
I return lost wallets and watches out of kindness and would hope someone would do in kind to me.
I don't hunt anymore because I.....well, because I suck at it. (not the shooting part,,,the 'being quiet for hours in a tree part.)

I don't do good things out of fear of being smited by a lightening bolt.
In fact, let's try an experiment:

*Mahnarch stands in an open field. Arms raised to the sky*
"God! If you truely exist, show yourself or all humanity will cease to believe!!"

See? Nothing to worry abo....

*Suddenly a lightning bolt strikes a nearby tree*

Uhm,,,that was just a coincedence.

*Suddenly, another lightening bolt strikes the same tree*

I'm gettin' OUTTA HERE!!

*Mahnarch runs away as Chuck Norris descends from the heavens*

And, as a fun parting gift, I give you the 'Real Story of the Life of Jesus.'

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFrufPxjwX0&mode=related&search=

"Stop! Stop killing Judas!"
lol.

[werwoof]

"not everything in the Bible is true"
Yes, it is.

Do you have any idea how many experts have painstakingly translated the bible, taking years to do so, with copious notes, explaining the literal meanings and cultural significance of difficult words and phrases? These translations were made by groups of experts, taking years, and reviewing and double-and triple-checking every word.

Nowhere does the Bible contradict itself, even though it was written by God through several people over a period of about 1500 years. It's a perfect document. It's amazing.
Most of the events which are prophesied in the Bible have come to pass. They have all been absolutely accurate.

You don't know the Bible, you don't know the history of the Bible, and yet you feel free to make claims about it off the top of your head. You should study a subject before you try to pose as someone who is knowledgable regarding that subject.

I'm not even trying to argue with you. You're going to believe what you want to believe, not what the evidence points to. I'm just telling you the truth.

I gotta tell you, kid, you just spew this stuff out, and you don't even know what you're talking about.

[werwoof]

mahnarch said:

[Edit: I just 'got' it. Earl was talking about the Lancer Evo IV automobile (notice the 'innocent smile' in the OP).
I'd love to have one. Stage three'd, with level two turbo, dropped to the ground and winged out........nice.

Ok, on with my original, ignorant post.]


I like christianity. I really do.
It's the reason I can leave the keys in my car or motorcycle all day long and leave my house unlocked when I'm away.
The people are friendly and tightly knit, especially in a small community like mine.

BUT(!), they do it for a reason....
"You're going to go to Hell!"

Now, step back for a second and think:

Would you rather be a good person and do good things out of fear of retribution/looking for a reward from some omnipotent, all powerful person?
Or, would you rather be a good person and do good things because it's morally the right thing to do?

God, or no God, I'd rather just live a 'morally right' lifestyle.
I don't give a second thought about any book.

Athiests (at least me, anyway) do things out of kindness and morality.
(Some) Christians do things out of fear - as do Hindus, Muslims, Jews, and Angelina Jolie.

I volunteer at the mission out of kindness and as a favor for a friend.
I return lost wallets and watches out of kindness and would hope someone would do in kind to me.
I don't hunt anymore because I.....well, because I suck at it. (not the shooting part,,,the 'being quiet for hours in a tree part.)

I don't do good things out of fear of being smited by a lightening bolt.
In fact, let's try an experiment:

*Mahnarch stands in an open field. Arms raised to the sky*
"God! If you truely exist, show yourself or all humanity will cease to believe!!"

See? Nothing to worry abo....

*Suddenly a lightning bolt strikes a nearby tree*

Uhm,,,that was just a coincedence.

*Suddenly, another lightening bolt strikes the same tree*

I'm gettin' OUTTA HERE!!

*Mahnarch runs away as Chuck Norris descends from the heavens*

And, as a fun parting gift, I give you the 'Real Story of the Life of Jesus.'

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFrufPxjwX0&mode=related&search=

"Stop! Stop killing Judas!"
lol.

Only God is good. There is no such thing as a good person, and no-one is good enough to get into Heaven. God is offering you the gift of life, and if you refuse to take it, he's not going to force you to. Hell was not created for man. God does not want anyone to go to Hell. He wants you to be healthy and happy. But He's not going to kick your door down if you don't want anything to do with Him.
Anyone who claims he is not a sinner is a liar. I don't measure up to my own standards, let alone God's. No, it's all about grace: undeserved favor. Mercy. "He is fathful to forgive", and there is nothing which cannot be forgiven.

"In the abundance of water, the fool (me) is thirsty." There was a point in my life that He got through to me the meaning of what to me is still a moving and profound verse. What a stubborn, reprehensible, miserable, horrible person I have been! If He set a wretch like me aside for salvation, believe me, anyone no-one is hopeless.
Religious hipocracy turns more people away from God than anything. The high-falootin' finger-pointers really upset Jesus, MUCH more than sinners.
I think it's been evident that I could stand a huge dose of humility, and with that, I think I will end my participation on this string.

Thanks for bearing with me. I know I haven't answered some of your questions, but it would take me so many days and so much bandwidth, it wouldn't be possible. I do have answers. The Bible has the answers. And God loved you enough to let His Son be humiliated, beaten, and die a horrible death, so that you can live in joy forever.

I hope that you will talk to Christians who are smarter and more gracious than I!

[Geekthras (The Gizmo of Yore)]

Sorry werwoof, I subscribe to the theory of intellectual osmosis and must leave before my stupidity increases. I have some parting questions

-Why do you think I'm a young child?
-Do you really think I'm being serious 100% of the time?
-Why do you continually double post?
-Why did you delete all those posts between ____'s?
-Why did you never respond to my arguments?
And finally, a closing statement.

I'm not even trying to argue with you. You're going to believe what you want to believe, not what the evidence points to. I'm just telling you the truth.

I gotta tell you, kid, you just spew this stuff out, and you don't even know what you're talking about.

[Peon]

werwoof said:

Nowhere does the Bible contradict itself, even though it was written by God through several people over a period of about 1500 years. It's a perfect document. It's amazing.

So what kind of a world is this that you live in, werwoof? Are there four-legged grasshoppers and rabbits that chew the cud in your world? (Leviticus 11:6 and Leviticus 11:20-23)

The Bible contradicts itself several times. Genesis 9:3 and Leviticus 11:4 disagree about what should be eaten by Man. If the writers of the Bible can't even agree on what God says Man should eat, then how can we possibly think the Bible is inerrant on all other matters?

[aido179]

phil said:

Excellent post Aido179.

*chuffed*

I don't believe that anything of such a massive amount of information can completely not contradict itself at some stage.

again, in the previous post (by peon) you say:
"Genesis 9:3 and Leviticus 11:4 disagree about what should be eaten by Man. "
which backs up my point that the bible was writen at different times. I would assume that these verses or what have you (lol, too lazy to figure out the proper term) were writen at different times in different areas and both would have made proper and complete sense to the people of that time and area. God would have inspired the writers to write it and I think he would have adjusted the pieces to make his followers good and just people in their times.

wow, I don't believe I'm writing this...It's making my own beliefs make sense.

[jesusaurus]

werwoof said:

"not everything in the Bible is true"
Yes, it is.

So Moses lived to be 600? Jesus rose from the dead? Some stuff might be true but not everything..

[dannyboy]

There's a reason why scholars for centuries have studied and still disagreed with meanings of some passages and some passages are believed to be partially in code.

For one thing a man asked Jesus "how many times do I need to forgive one's sins? 7?
Jesus said "70 times 7" so did me mean 490 or just as long as the man tries to earn forgiveness?
Some say that at one time the number 7 was a code for infinite. Was it? I don't know. But if that is true and as I said I don't know if it is or not, then that 70 x 7 means infinity times 10 infinities right?

Or did he simply mean 7?