Muslims, Kids and more.

[Captain Awesome]

Mahnarch, I will ask you this: When has violence ever been prevented by more violence?

Arming everyone would just cause gun-related deaths in the US to skyrocket.

[Mahnarch]

Cap, there are millions of guns in the U.S., privately owned and the death rates haven't gone anywhere - except in the rare cases like Columbine and Virginia, which where done in "No Gun Zones."

The very thought of someone 'might be carrying', like I said somewhere back there, is enough of a deterrent for you to not pull yours on someone, unless that other person has already drawn and is blowing people away.

If some guy walked into your place of business and started shooting other customers, would you rather have a gun tucked under the counter/desk/your belt and be able to defend yourself? Or would you rather duck into a cubby hole and wait until the guy finds you so you can plead for your life before he pulls the trigger?

I'd take my chances with a pistol and could probably save a lot of lives.
You could also grab your pistol and duck under a desk to shoot the guys feet.

It'll slow him down so others can jump him and beat the living crap out of him until the fuzz get there, and before the ACLU gets him off the charges because "He was just misunderstood. He didn't mean to shoot anyone..."

[Peon]

littleguy29 said:

Mahnarch, I will ask you this: When has violence ever been prevented by more violence?

Arming everyone would just cause gun-related deaths in the US to skyrocket.

Here's a quote from the Wikipedia article "Concealed Carry in the United States":

Don Kates summarizes the consensus reached by criminological research into gun control thus:

"Unfortunately, an almost perfect inverse correlation exists between those who are affected by gun laws, particularly bans, and those whom enforcement should affect. Those easiest to disarm are the responsible and law abiding citizens whose guns represent no meaningful social problem. Irresponsible and criminal owners, whose gun possession creates or exacerbates so many social ills, are the ones most difficult to disarm."[10]

Regardless of the interpretation of statistics, the trend in the United States has been towards greater permissiveness of concealed carry. In Florida, which first introduced "shall-issue" concealed carry laws, crimes committed against residents dropped markedly upon the general issuance of concealed-carry licenses,[11] which had the unintended consequence of putting tourists in Florida driving marked rental cars at risk from criminals (since tourists may be readily presumed unarmed.) Florida responded by enacting laws prohibiting the obvious marking of rental cars. In 1991, the Luby's massacre prompted Texas lawmakers to pass a concealed carry law.[12]

Like it or not, if you have law-abiding citizens carrying guns, violent crimes WILL become less frequent.

[Kimm]

tc23 said:

littleguy29 said:

Like it or not, if you have law-abiding citizens carrying guns, violent crimes WILL become less frequent.

I have different feelings about guns and who should have them.
The revolutionary war never would have been successful had the citizens not had their own armed militias though.

So I agree. My worries are the same ones most people would have but we also have the right to bear arms in the constitution.
While I understand Constitutions can be amended I still lean toward agreeing with Peon and Mahnarch about allow the citizens to have arms is better in the long run.

[Mahnarch]

Like it or not, if you have law-abiding citizens carrying guns, violent crimes WILL become less frequent.

100% correct.
If the spartans didn't carry spears the Persians would have just walked up and took them over.

The Spartans were trained to use their spears correctly and didn't just walk around poking everyone.
The same thing with guns. They are the projectible spears of today.

I guess I'm not saying, hand them out to every Tom, Dick and Harry (excluding the 'buy milk' thing), but to allow every citizen, even those with DUI, Drug Convictions and other "Not been arrested for brandishing a weapon and dischargeing into a crowd" offenses to be able to carry.

What ever happened to the days when men would carry their muskets into town and rest them on the wall outside the local pub?

What day was it that, suddenly, no one flung their rifle over their shoulder and headed to the grocery or hardware store?

When did people stop carrying fencing swords on their belt?

I guarantee that, if I were to strap my katana to my back and walk around downtown, the fuzz would be on me like white on rice - even though it's legal to carry.

'Open Carry' is also legal, without a permit.
As long as your shirt or jacket doesn't cover your gun, you can 'legally' walk down any street in the U.S.

But, society and the media makes everyone freak out and call 911 if they see it.
The cops will LIE to you and make you hand over the gun.

And, they will stipulate the law by saying, "His shirt covered a corner of the handle" making it a 'Concealed Carry' situation.

99.999999999999% of your gun can be out in the open, but is that one remaining percent is covered with a thread of your shirt - IT'S CONCEALLED!!!!

That's how they get you.
Also, if you have it on your belt, in a holster and jump into your truck.....BAAMM! CONCEALLED!!

How did I get on this topic?......

I hate politicians.

Cap, are you willing to take the spears out of Spartan hands?

[Mahnarch]

I just found an interesting article/ad for a book that explains the problem of Gun Control.

www.jpfo.org/dial911anddie.htm

Excerpt:

Erase the myth of police protection, and "gun control" dies as an idea ... permanently.

How often do the gun prohibitionists use the recent spate of murderous attacks on schools, businesses, community centers and churches as reasons for "gun control"? When you understand the concept in Dial 911 and Die, those reasons evaporate. Each of those cases highlights that the police were powerless and unable to prevent or stop those attacks. Emergency 911 service is available almost everywhere in the U.S. -- and it was worthless against those armed attackers.

The unarmed victims of criminal attack and their families cannot get compensation from the city governments that failed to protect them in these famous terrible cases. The only people on location when the attackers came were the victims themselves. At the same time, the prevailing laws and anti-gun culture made sure those victims were unarmed. Police help was too little, too late.

[Captain Awesome]

mahnarch said:

Cap, are you willing to take the spears out of Spartan hands?

Um, that's not really the issue here, seeing as how we aren't living in ancient Greece... But anyways, I concede your point on the correlation between concealed carrying and violent crime. However, I for one would rather not live in a society where it is necessary to carry a weapon at all times for my own safety. Yes, fewer gun control laws would help prevent violent crime, but I don't think that's the answer.

[Peon]

littleguy29 said:

mahnarch said:

Cap, are you willing to take the spears out of Spartan hands?

Um, that's not really the issue here, seeing as how we aren't living in ancient Greece... But anyways, I concede your point on the correlation between concealed carrying and violent crime. However, I for one would rather not live in a society where it is necessary to carry a weapon at all times for my own safety. Yes, fewer gun control laws would help prevent violent crime, but I don't think that's the answer.

Of course it's not. But that doesn't mean that you can take away guns for law-abiding citizens while there are still violent crimes. That's a step in the wrong direction.

Eliminate violent crime before you even touch gun control laws. Then you can decide whether you want to change gun control laws, if at all.

[Mahnarch]

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfectly sane world. I mean, just look at me for proof!
You'ld need a gun to stop an aggressive attacker the same that you'd need a 2x4 to ward off an aggressive panhandler.

Also, even if you eliminated every single violent felon, you'd still have to tend to violent bears and squirrels.

Guns weren't always used in human-to-human confrontation. Anti-Gunners seem to forget this.
People did, and still do, hunt for their food.
It would be like (since we aren't living in ancient Greece) taking someone's car away from them so they couldn't get to the grocery store (hunt), or run from an assailant (defend/flee).

You're stripping them from their right to feed and defend themselves in quite the same manner.

.....I guess in this scenario, a horse would equal a knife.

And, yes, knives would be next after eliminateing guns - then paper, because it can also cut you.

[cactus1]

you'd still have to tend to violent bears and squirrels.

Remember, the bear is just as afraid of you as you are of it.

[dannyboy]

cactus1 said:

you'd still have to tend to violent bears and squirrels.

Remember, the bear is just as afraid of you as you are of it.

I suppose thats true, but it never seems that way when he is chasing you.

[Mahnarch]

Yeah, danny. The same with spiders, too.

Bears may be as afraid of me, but are they as fascinated?
Do they have pictures and figurines of me in their dens? lol.

If so, where's my cut of the art profits?!!

[cactus1]

Where's the bear's cut?

[dannyboy]

Pay to the order of the bear

[skier1]

I know how to kill a bear with a pocket knife. Every time I go camping, I secretly hope a bear will attack, just so I can exercise such a useful skill.

[Mahnarch]

A bear secretly hopes you'll attack his lair so he can practice on you, to. lol.

And catfish wait in hiding, hoping you'll reach in and try to grab him with your bare hands!

Have you seen this?
Guys go catfish hunting and get the fish to bite them so they can pull them out of their dens.
I forget what the 'sport' is called, though.

Sometimes the 'fishermen' find a snapping turtle, instead, and lose fingers.

Ow!

[cactus1]

Isn't it called noodling?

[Mahnarch]

You're right on the ball. 'Noodling'.

My 'Snap-On' driver told me about it once when he was handing out promo mags of his tools.
I had forgotten the name until you said it.

I just finished a vid on weapons that are actually tools.

Tools: Called Weapons