Detroit files for bankruptcy.

[Kimm]

So Detroit is filing for bankruptcy. The focal point of our countrys industry, and the motor capital of the world.

I do realize that General Motors, and Chrysler have scaled down in recent years. Chrysler ceased Plymouth, and General Motors ceased Pontiac and Saturn and some other things too.

I think Ford kept all its makes so far. And Ford did not take a buy out from the federal government. GM needed a buyout to stay operational and Chrysler got in n the offer but didnt request it.

I dont know that the automotive factories are the basis of Detroits demise though. I also realize that from what I have read Detroit has been on the cusp of ruins for over 50 years.

In the last 20 at least by stereotype there are no safe parts of the City of Detroit. I am sure that is not entirely true since that seems impossible and I do not live near there to find out by means other than the internet or television.

How does a city go bankrupt though?

I could research this and get an answer, I will because I will eventually have to discuss this a little bit and will have to have some insight not to the solution but to at least know how the problem came about.

Will a financial bailout fix Detroit? If the federal government did get involved, could they come up with a plan that is good enough to get the Detroit area up and running and make Detroit metropolitan area self sufficient enough to pay the federal government back?

Or does the federal government tax the rest of America to put money into Detroit that will get them out of debt right now and still have a problem in the future because the City of Detroit doesnt generate enough money to support itself?

If thats the situation, the same thing would happen over time even if they were bailed out this time.


Heres some of what Detroit faces, and what whoever wishes to reconstruct the city would be up against.

abcnews.go.com/US/detroits-mayor-bing-challenge-census-figures/story?id=13203061

[Phil]

I remember when I was about 8 Cleveland filed for bankruptcy. How can that happen? What does it I mean? Is it metro leadership or lack of it? Does it become a product of when factories scale down the goal oriented people seek employment elsewhere and the unmotivated drifters are left to pillage and loot?

There was a news story in Detroit a few months ago where a passenger in a car shot the driver a, the car came to an umsmooth stop since the driver was shot. When the car stopped on a lawn the passenger ran off. The neighbors made no effort to make sure the wounded guy was ok or to catch the guy who shot him, but instead they looted the car and checked his pockets before somebody finally called for help

That's demented. No doubt all large cities are going through some trouble but not too many places can you expect a story like that.

I spend a few days in Washington DC the week before last. I was shocked how bad in a dangerous way that city has become. Washington other than Capitol Hill is in a bad state also.

Cities nationwide are probably going to end up crashing and being recreated. Whole blocks and neighborhoods are being leveled and reconstruction plans are being discussed. I am 42 years old don't know if that's really going to happen in my lifetime but that seems to be the way things are shaping up.


What happens if the feds do not bail out the city of Detroit? Is there an obligation to?

If they don't there's going to be no police or fire department and although Detroit is already in ruins its going to lose what little hope it has if something isn't done.

[Classicblast]

How does a city go bankrupt is what I'm not fully understanding. Is it that the taxes collected do not cover the overhead of the city?

I have some understanding of business I never ran my dad's family business but I did work there during baseball off seasons before I was married. My brothers mainly run it now. And I get it they must be paid more for a project than the manpower and materials and cost of running equipment costs or they can't operate.

I think everybody understands that. If my paycheck doesn't come to a greater number than my mortgage, utilities, taxes insurance car notes, and whatever other expenses like two sons I need to get more money or cut expenses. Fair enough obviously we ll live that.

Sometimes a paycheck has to get us to the next paycheck.

So doesn't a municipal organization see that? There has to be a city controller, and bookkeepers treasurers I an not sure what makes up the city panel I am not in government but that's about what I know.

They must have an idea what each grouping needs to generate. Police, schools, government itself, highway department, water department and transport, all the rest. Taxes are collected to cover them.

Either taxes would need to go up, and I know nobody ever wants to hear that, or expenses have to go down. If one or both doesn't happen I guess bankruptcy does.

How do we figure out what went wrong if you're the Detroit mayor and his city panel?

The Mayor can only do so much he, like any executive leader has more rights than the rest of the panel but he faces checks and balances.

Over a period of time they must know that its getting to be too expensive.

I figure that when urban areas become too dangerous only the dangerous element stays there. Most of them are not tax payers, and rather they're mostly on social services or their money is obtained illegally theft, selling of drugs etc. That video is very compelling that thugs throw items out windows or off rooftops of abandoned buildings. That when looking through the ruins of an old building police turn up a body in a burned and abandoned car.

News like that doesn't motivate you to start your home or business in those neighborhoods.

Ron LeFlore was a baseball player forn Detroit and he posted a book in 1978 there's also a movie about LeFlore and how he was discovered by Billy Martin while serving a prison sentence for armed robbery.

In the book there is more to learn because it explains in detail just how bad the neighborhoods were. And LeFlore was born between 1948 and 1952, that's a frequent conflict.

But obviously he grew up between 1950 and 1970 and he tells stories in the book written in 1978 that make you really take a new look at how rough some places are. Obviously those streets haven't improved in 30 plus years.

[Phil]

From what I am reading Detroit may be the 1st of many cities to seek bankruptcy.

That could even be determined based on how Detroit goes. Detroit may be the trendsetter for the procedure on bankrupt cites.

[Classicblast]

Jul 23, 2013 13:44:05 GMT -5 Phil said:

From what I am reading Detroit may be the 1st of many cities to seek bankruptcy.

That could even be determined based on how Detroit goes. Detroit may be the trendsetter for the procedure on bankrupt cites.

I think so too. And if federal aid goes to Detroit, look out because there's going to be about 30 Detroits. Some might not be as bad off but if they can get federal money to construct their city they're going to try.

[Phil]

Is this the opening chance for something medieval to happen? I mean suppose someone wealthy steps up and decided to for lack of a better way to put it, buy Detroit.

The auto makers would either move to surrounding cities or pay rent, so would the Lions, Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons. *the Pistons play in Auburn HIlls, Mich*

That person takes on the liability of Detroit and trains his own police force/military and they then take Detroit. The government and rest of the country seems to have mixed feelings that its dangerous to let that happen but then again the bankrupt place is being taken care of and then they gain power not too much unlike Al Capone and Chicago in the 1920s.

I know that sounds far fetched, but is it? It could seem intriguing at 1st that an independent person could lift the pressure off the federal government until it boils below like that type of thing usually does.

[Kimm]

That might not be as far fetched as it sounds Phil.

At first people may embrace that. What I mean is a wealthy guy buys several blocks, and he comes across as an investor so its intriguing to the city because taxes are going to be paid on these properties that the city had to foreclose on for owners lack of ability to pay or lack of interest in keeping those locations. Old dilapidated houses or stores are razed and new things are built neighborhoods begin to grow.

In the meantime nobody is looking over his shoulder too much because taxes are being paid that hadnt been for years. Contractors are being hired to level and reconstruct and jobs are being created things that had not been done in decades.

Then the troublesome element moves away from those blocks because theres activity and these gangs, dealers and pimps dont want attention drawn to them so they head away from those blocks.

Now the investor has turned those few blocks into something good the community awards him. He gets the chance to do the same thing with surrounding blocks and inch by inch he pretty much owns Detroit. Yes, that is possible.

[Phil]

That's basically what I meant.

That can be heroic to save a place but it can also be the start of a territory that is left alone by outsiders and a Jonestown situation could form.

[Classicblast]

I could see a Muslim community doing that. Especially an out of country based group.

[Phil]

Aug 2, 2013 0:30:37 GMT -5 Classicblast said:

I could see a Muslim community doing that. Especially an out of country based group.

I didn't think of that, and that's even more possible and even more dangerous. Especially if they bring in constructive crews from warzone countries, American burned out cities would seem easy.

Then they have a headquarters in American grounds. That would be extra dangerous.

[Kimm]

I think the government will bail out Detroit. Theres too much industry and need for the nation to keep Detroit afloat more than some other cities.

[Jason O'Lewa]

I would buy Detroit and start an empire ;D

[Classicblast]

I think the real worry is someone a lot less scrupulous than you could actually do that.

[Phil]

My father in law was saying something about New Orleans in the 60s being near ruins and after Hurricane Camille in 1969 devastation really happened. A developer bought several square miles of New Orleans for a low price as far as real estate goes and spend the next 30 years fixing New Orleans. I know that Hurricane Katrina in 2005 hurt but the point being that if enough people play ball and someone with some ability takes charge it is possible to fix a place.

New Orleans had some appeal by being on the Gulf coast of Mexico. Detroit has industry but not as much nature that would be a selling point but it is on the great lakes.

I don't know the particulars of either place enough to say which city was in worse shape but most of what I can pinpoint it seems Detroit is worse.

[Classicblast]

My family business is in construction I know my dad and my brothers would like nothing better than to get their hands on a few blocks to construct. Its a financial venture way beyond our means but its still an exciting thought to entertain.

[Phil]

I don't know if its less desirable on 2nd thought. Its not on the coast, but it is on water, and Detroit is a very historic industrial city. The 'Motor City' and that's the direction this country should be heading back into. Manufacturing. Its jobs and its also self sufficient. Not having to depend on importation is huge. We have resources in this country. With very few exceptions there are not many things this country should need to import.

Providing for ourselves would make such a change for the better in our national economy as well as put people back to work.

Now, Detroit has a worse crime reputation than New Orleans but then again if the major developments took place that we are discussing a total rebuild the neighborhoods would be more active and crime would lessen. That's not to say that we wouldn't simply move the problem being that the crime rings would still exist they just may move a few miles away or to neighboring cities. That is a possibility. But if we do nothing we will get nothing.

It would be nice to see something like that happen in our troubled cities throughout the country and Detroit might have a lot to offer with what's already there.

[Kimm]

I dont know what other choice there is. But I do think all elected officials should be forced out if the government intervenes here.

[Blastgirl]

I sometimes wonder if the whole Country isn't headed down the same path. It seems that most people who are used to having frills aren't willing to give those things up and that could bring us down as a Country and Detroit may only be the tip of the iceberg.