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Post by Bartleby, the Scrivener on Sept 1, 2010 23:26:25 GMT -5
The fact that it was called the National Socialist German Worker's Party has nothing to do with their political ideology. Scholars tend to agree that they are a far-right group. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_German_Workers_Party"The Nazi Party is generally described as being at the extreme or far right of the left-right political axis. While the party incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right. On the Nolan Chart, the Nazi party would be described as politically extreme authoritarian, and economically centrist." www.lawrence.edu/sorg/objectivism/socfasc.htmlBut more importantly none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand. "Liberals can constantly hammer away at the idea that people opposed to the mosque are restricting religious freedom, when it isn't about that. They have been asked, over and over and over again, to please move the mosque elsewhere. Remember, they aren't being told to move it, they are being asked. Not because Americans don't like Muslims and feel they shouldn't be allowed to build, but that they should be considerate enough to respect the memory of 9/11, the families that lost loved ones, and the brave men and women that died trying to save those who were in peril." Okay, but We live in America, the DO NOT HAVE TO mosque if they don't want to, whether you, the families of 9/11 victims, or anyone else likes it or not. If they should move it or not is a completely different discussion. |
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Post by Phil on Sept 2, 2010 12:42:40 GMT -5
Possum you're really not comparing apples to apples here. I'll come back to this later I have a restless 3 year old so I can't make long posts and dissect them all but I can a little later I'll do it then. But those examples are not the same thing.
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Post by fartinggurl on Sept 2, 2010 22:07:10 GMT -5
Pretty much everyone here said what I was going to say. While this is a free country, I do believe that it's in bad taste to put the mosque so close to ground zero. If the mosque was built somewhere else in NYC, it would not be as big an issue as it is, but since they want to put it so close to ground zero, then it's another issue entirely.
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Post by Classicblast on Sept 2, 2010 23:47:02 GMT -5
Pretty much everyone here said what I was going to say. While this is a free country, I do believe that it's in bad taste to put the mosque so close to ground zero. If the mosque was built somewhere else in NYC, it would not be as big an issue as it is, but since they want to put it so close to ground zero, then it's another issue entirely. That's exactly right. It cuts out all the variables and sums up just how I feel about it. A city the size of New York can place that anywhere why is is so important to put it there. I'm sure the answer is "theres a call for a Mosque in that general area and that's the land that was for sale when they were ready to buy." That answer is just too easy for me but I'd bet that's what they would say if asked. |
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Post by Jason O'Lewa on Sept 3, 2010 10:41:13 GMT -5
i did not read each and every post end to end in this topic but I dont think that is right for a mosque to be built there
i play for a trailblazers football group I play for the 12 to 15 age group
when I was in the 12 and under group the 18 and under group got in trouble for having a beer party in a park
the hole trailblazer group got suspended from that park
it wasnt my age group that made the trouble but we were held off from coming to that park
thats just how it goes sometimes
i think a mosque somewhere else would cause a lot less trouble
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Post by Jersey on Sept 3, 2010 14:44:20 GMT -5
Here's something important. "Egyptian-born businessman Hisham Elzanaty, who made what is described as a "significant investment" in the Ground Zero mosque project,contributed more than $6,000 in 1999 to the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, also known as HLF, tax records show." "The donations came two years before the federal government shut down HLF and designated it a terror group." "Federal investigators say the group was set up as a Texas-based charity, but in fact supported Hamas." www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/03/ground-zero-mosque-investor-contributed-designated-terror-group/Just for the record, Hamas is the militant terror group responsible for terrorist attacks out of Pakistan against Israel. |
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Post by Slayzie on Sept 4, 2010 2:59:54 GMT -5
Here's something important. "Egyptian-born businessman Hisham Elzanaty, who made what is described as a "significant investment" in the Ground Zero mosque project,contributed more than $6,000 in 1999 to the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, also known as HLF, tax records show." "The donations came two years before the federal government shut down HLF and designated it a terror group." "Federal investigators say the group was set up as a Texas-based charity, but in fact supported Hamas." www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/03/ground-zero-mosque-investor-contributed-designated-terror-group/Just for the record, Hamas is the militant terror group responsible for terrorist attacks out of Pakistan against Israel. Why's this so important? If you read further through the article, you'll find it also states that: Let me emphasise a point here. Bill Gates backed these people too. Bill. Effing. Gates. Whoever they were, if they conned the richest man in the world into giving them money, then it's no stain on this other fellow's record that they conned him into giving them money too. Oh, and just for the record, Hamas operates out of Palestine, you know, the place in the Middle East, not the place in central Asia. Just sayin'. ^^ |
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Post by Jersey on Sept 4, 2010 19:10:45 GMT -5
It's important because there is no way for anyone to know whether he knew or not. You assume he was dupped. I say he knew what he was doing. And that's the difference between us that will never, ever change. I still consider it important to my argument, regardless.
And I did mean to say Palestine, not Pakistan. I mix the two up all the time.
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Post by Bartleby, the Scrivener on Sept 4, 2010 20:01:15 GMT -5
And I'm going to ask you nicely. Once. Remove it from your signature please. If you don't I'll do it for you. Way to flex your e-muscles. |
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Post by Jersey on Sept 4, 2010 20:08:03 GMT -5
And I'm going to ask you nicely. Once. Remove it from your signature please. If you don't I'll do it for you. Way to flex your e-muscles. Way to poke your nose where it doesn't belong. Again. I admitted to my mistake. If I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong, he can be big enough to honor my request. Very simple. |
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Post by Bartleby, the Scrivener on Sept 4, 2010 20:20:00 GMT -5
I forgot this was a private message, I'm sorry.
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Post by Slayzie on Sept 4, 2010 20:30:08 GMT -5
Alright, then. I'm assuming you're probably using a computer running Microsoft Windows to view this topic. You strike me as the patriotic sort of person who wouldn't even consider pirating a top-quality, genuine, American-made piece of software, so I'm assuming you bought it. The money you paid for your copy of Microsoft Windows, as well as any other Microsoft programs you have on your computer went to Microsoft, obviously.
Now, unless I'm much mistaken, your logic goes something like this. This organisation supported Hamas. This man may or may not have knowingly supported this organisation. The cultural centre was supported by this man. Therefore the cultural centre has a potential link to Hamas.
Well, how about this. The organisation supported Hamas. Microsoft may or may not have knowingly supported the organisation. You've supported Microsoft. Therefore, by your own logic, you, Jersey Life, have a potential link to Hamas, the "militant terror group responsible for terrorist attacks out of [Palestine] against Israel".
If you want to push it further, and say that the people responsible for the cultural centre knowingly accepted support from a man who did knowingly support Hamas through the organisation, then I'm just as happy to push it further and accuse you of supporting Hamas by way of Microsoft and the organisation.
I trust you can see the error in this line of reasoning.
However, if you can't, and you want to stick to your story: that there is a definite link between this man, the cultural centre, and Hamas, fine. You do that, you dirty terrorist supporter, you, but don't you dare darken the general vicinity of ground zero with your disgusting, anti-american presence. You make me sick.
Oh, and just for the record, please, for gently caress's sake, please don't take this in any other manner than the tongue-in-cheek way in which it was intended. I don't want another fiasco like that whole "it'll be lulz if you shoot a friend accidentally" bs. Thanks.
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Post by Phil on Sept 4, 2010 21:07:25 GMT -5
I hate the way this thread has begun to become personal insults I have always gotten along with Jersey and Slayzie.
Slayzie this time I think you're made too many angles to try to prove a point when you said that Jersey having microsoft in his computer is then indirectly involved too.
All right, I drive a Chevrolet. By now I'm pretty sure all of the members of the lewasite community have seen it. I also own a Buick my wife drives that. Chevrolet is a sub company of General Motors. General Motors makes not just Chevrolet but also GMC, Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, and formerly Oldsmobile. Now perhaps if Pontiac motor division of GM produced some engines that were installed in fighter planes that were sold by the United States government to Egypt. Then Egypt had a war with another country have I supported the Egyptian invasion since I own 2 General Motors vehicles?
That would be reaching pretty far.
Slayzie you and Jersey are not really friends since you disagree on nearly everything and you had a heated argument once before. Now that he has explained that he misspoke even if it is in print and asked you nicely to remove that from your sig I think that would help.
I don't think you 2 are good enough friends for that kind of 'tongue in cheek humor.' as you called it.
As for Possum, you have a right to disagree with the topic at hand just as Slayzie does. I strongly oppose the building of the Mosque. I have no anger about the disagreement but in forum moderation the moderator does have a right to change or remove what he deems to be offensive. He does have that right.
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Post by Slayzie on Sept 4, 2010 21:36:22 GMT -5
Phil, that's sort of the point I was trying to make. You see, I made just as many links, or angles as you put it, as Jersey did.
Jersey buys Microsoft products -> Microsoft supports organisation -> organisation supports Hamas
Cultural centre supported by man -> man supports organisation -> organisation supports Hamas
If it's a strong enough correlation for him, then my argument is, by his logic, equally valid.
However, anyone with an objective outlook on things can see that both statements are not only unlikely, but impossible to prove, and have no bearing on whether or not it's alright to build a cultural centre near Ground Zero. End of.
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Post by Phil on Sept 4, 2010 21:40:59 GMT -5
Fair enough, now what about your signature?
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Post by Jersey on Sept 4, 2010 22:14:39 GMT -5
You strike me as the patriotic sort of person who wouldn't even consider pirating a top-quality, genuine, American-made piece of software, so I'm assuming you bought it. The money you paid for your copy of Microsoft Windows, as well as any other Microsoft programs you have on your computer went to Microsoft, obviously. The laptop I use was given to me as a high school graduation present four years ago. You're correct in that it runs Windows XP, but I didn't buy it. My folks did. I suppose they support Hamas, don't they? Now, unless I'm much mistaken, your logic goes something like this. This organisation supported Hamas. This man may or may not have knowingly supported this organisation. The cultural centre was supported by this man. Therefore the cultural centre has a potential link to Hamas. Well, you just happen to be mistaken. The organization supported Hamas. The Egyptian donated money, I believe knowingly, to this organization that supported Hamas. Therefore, to me, the Ground Zero Mosque received support from a man that has supported terrorism. I'm not saying the Mosque itself supports Hamas, I'm saying one of it's key monetary contributors did. If you want to push it further, and say that the people responsible for the cultural centre knowingly accepted support from a man who did knowingly support Hamas through the organisation, then I'm just as happy to push it further and accuse you of supporting Hamas by way of Microsoft and the organisation. Guess that's me and the majority of America. Guess Obama better get cracking and start arresting Microsoft buyers. I disagree with your logic of course. But that's what you wanted me to say. I don't think you 2 are good enough friends for that kind of 'tongue in cheek humor.' as you called it. Understatement of the year. (I know you're being diplomatic Phil, I appreciate that.) But I did play his game a bit this time, to my standard of course, so I'm thinking that Slayzie will be enough of an adult to remove that quote from the signature like I asked. As for "bite me", that may be something you enjoy on the side Slayzie but I don't swing that way. Thanx. |
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Post by Bartleby, the Scrivener on Sept 5, 2010 1:01:29 GMT -5
so I'm thinking that Slayzie will be enough of an adult to remove that quote from the signature like I asked. As for "bite me", that may be something you enjoy on the side Slayzie but I don't swing that way. Thanx. Okay, so it's alright for you to imply that Slayer is a homosexual but not okay for him to quote your confusion between Palestine and Pakistan? ... in forum moderation the moderator does have a right to change or remove what he deems to be offensive. He does have that right. |
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Post by Jersey on Sept 5, 2010 1:14:30 GMT -5
so I'm thinking that Slayzie will be enough of an adult to remove that quote from the signature like I asked. As for "bite me", that may be something you enjoy on the side Slayzie but I don't swing that way. Thanx. Okay, so it's alright for you to imply that Slayer is a homosexual but not okay for him to quote your confusion between Palestine and Pakistan? Its a game Possum. A game. He's gently caressing around with me by keeping it on there and refusing to remove it when I asked politely after admitting my mistake. So if he gets to gently caress around with me by refusing to honor my request and saying "bite me" in response, I'm going to start gently caressing around with him. Do you think I'm being serious when I say that's something he enjoys on the side? You're a bigger idiot than I originally thought. |
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