Arizona's Immigration Law

[Kevin]

Some details here.

Basically, Arizona has passed a law that allows police to detain people they suspect to be illegal immigrants, and makes not having proof of citizenship a crime. It's drawn a lot of heat lately from a lot of groups.

Personally, I'm all for tougher immigration laws. If the term is "illegal immigrant", shouldn't it therefore be illegal for them to be here without citizenship? If an immigrant wants to become a citizen, then by all means they can stay. However, if an immigrant is living in this country without even attempting to apply to become a citizen (it is a long process, I'm aware), then they should be punished.

[Classicblast]

I have mixed feelings. I for the most agree with you. Obviously I know a lot of people who came from underprivileged countries. I can understand them not wanting to go back to the living conditions that they came from.

In fact a lot of these guys will work hard for very little other than the right to stay in this country. That can be wrong for different reasons some ranchers end up with what's not much more than a slave. Other than the living conditions are naturally better in the twenty-first century. My brother Thunderbird has sponsored or helped find sponsors for a few guys who couldn't quite land a job in baseball but didn't want to return to their native country.

Most of those guys will show gratitude much more than the attitude of "This is what I deserve!"

Others get involved in organized crime I know some stories about that too.

I don't mind efforts to find the immigrants and place them through due process everybody does better this way. Citizens aren't competing for jobs with illegals who work for below minimum wage. Work visas ensure they will receive at least minimum wage and appropriate living conditions, (there's no union for illegals either remember). Also proper taxes are distributed for all workers because they're recorded workers.

[Phil]

I guess I can't move to Arizona now. They don't like Keystones there. What do you say Maggotfarm808?

[Demona]

I think it's kind of going about things wrong and creating unnecessary trouble because it will lead to profiling people. There could be new immigrants who came the right way who don't speak perfect English, or little things that say, "there's something different about so and so," even if not, and it's just not going to be good. If it's found out somebody is illegally here, then by all means send them back until they do it like they should. There are also communities of Mexicans in this country who aren't immigrants, because those parts of the country were once Mexico at one point.

[Blastgirl]

I am honestly not sure how I feel about this. So many desperate people have tried to get into this Country. I realize that all of our families came from elsewhere at one time exception of Native Americans.

I partway think they should have the same opportunity but then again we can only take so many new people at a time. There's a proper way and Kevin mentioned they're not all abiding by it. A number of young guys come in for baseball and try to get a work Visa if they can't get on a team because they just don't want to leave.

[Phil]

I guess if I was in the States even illegally I'd wan to stay here too. I understand the law is the law but I get both sides of this for sure.

[Classicblast]

May 7, 2010 21:59:14 GMT -5 Phil said:

I guess if I was in the States even illegally I'd wan to stay here too. I understand the law is the law but I get both sides of this for sure.

Of course. The guys I know are from South America, Mexico or the Dominican Republics and they're not members of the elitist families so they're third world citizens. How can going back to that be attractive?

[Kevin]

May 7, 2010 23:57:57 GMT -5 Classicblast said:

Of course. The guys I know are from South America, Mexico or the Dominican Republics and they're not members of the elitist families so they're third world citizens. How can going back to that be attractive?

Just because their alternative living situation is bad doesn't mean they can live here illegally. Why even use the term illegal immigrant anymore if it's not being treated as a crime?

[Blastgirl]

I think Classic and I are saying we understand more than that its right.

[Blix]

Is your country even overpopulated at this time? I mean, if you've got the space for it, I think accepting immigrants would be a must. Those who enter illegally should be sent through a process where they get 'tested' and either sent back or accepted as a new citizen. That's how the system is in Norway, and I kind of expect that you do the same (I'm asking because I don't know. ^^)

In general, we don't have a problem with overpopulation, so we accept immigrants for the most part. However, if we find out that an immigrant was a criminal (major offenses of course) we will often deport them back to their country for national security reasons. I believe this to be the obvious way to handle things, unless you don't have the room for it. ^^

[Jason O'Lewa]

May 8, 2010 14:38:59 GMT -5 Blix said:

Is your country even overpopulated at this time? I mean, if you've got the space for it, I think accepting immigrants would be a must. Those who enter illegally should be sent through a process where they get 'tested' and either sent back or accepted as a new citizen. That's how the system is in Norway, and I kind of expect that you do the same (I'm asking because I don't know. ^^)

In general, we don't have a problem with overpopulation, so we accept immigrants for the most part. However, if we find out that an immigrant was a criminal (major offenses of course) we will often deport them back to their country for national security reasons. I believe this to be the obvious way to handle things, unless you don't have the room for it. ^^

thats in concept how it is hear too but of coure theres complications because lawyers make it hard to define what constatutes criminal and major offenses
the idea is similar though in how they say it works

[Demona]

May 8, 2010 14:38:59 GMT -5 Blix said:

Is your country even overpopulated at this time? I mean, if you've got the space for it, I think accepting immigrants would be a must. Those who enter illegally should be sent through a process where they get 'tested' and either sent back or accepted as a new citizen. That's how the system is in Norway, and I kind of expect that you do the same (I'm asking because I don't know. ^^)

In general, we don't have a problem with overpopulation, so we accept immigrants for the most part. However, if we find out that an immigrant was a criminal (major offenses of course) we will often deport them back to their country for national security reasons. I believe this to be the obvious way to handle things, unless you don't have the room for it. ^^

Well, I think some are let by in certain circumstances, others are sent back. I'm honestly not sure either. The thing that makes me mad about them is how some are taking jobs away from people here who are desperate. The idiotic reasoning is because we apparently all think we're too good to do certain things, which I say is BULL!

As for our population, it's a big one, but I'm not sure about overcrowding yet. Still, illegal is illegal, and there's a right way to do things, even if it's harder. I just don't think this new law is going about it right because it's going to lead to profiling. Yes the article said it won't be tolerated, but I don't see how it can't lead to that.

[Classicblast]

Demona I'd say you're spot on about people thinking they're above doing certain jobs and the illegals are willing therefore the people who are receiving their labor aren't so quick to blow the whistle on them.

They will do some jobs that are difficult for minimum wage or less.

Obviously minimum wage is set to make it possible to maintain a standard.

Altogether the American system is pretty good. Obviously there are flaws. A poverty standard is based on if you received minimum wage for a 40 hour work week that amount is what you would be your gross earnings anything above that is middle class.

That's not true in reality but on a mathematical chart it could play out like that. A hundred bucks over that poverty isn't really middle class.

I don't want to get too far off topic but if asked I can explain that last sentence.

Overpopulation? Obviously there's a chance of becoming over populated. If you add people to the country the land can be developed further but the country isn't getting any bigger the square miles are the same. Can we accommodate more population? Yes we could. Is there danger of over population? Yes, not in a year or two though.

Its a very tricky situation. I understand explaining the law is not tricky but the justice in it can be very complex.

[Demona]

May 10, 2010 0:53:35 GMT -5 Classicblast said:

Demona I'd say you're spot on about people thinking they're above doing certain jobs and the illegals are willing therefore the people who are receiving their labor aren't so quick to blow the whistle on them.

They will do some jobs that are difficult for minimum wage or less.

Obviously minimum wage is set to make it possible to maintain a standard.

Altogether the American system is pretty good. Obviously there are flaws. A poverty standard is based on if you received minimum wage for a 40 hour work week that amount is what you would be your gross earnings anything above that is middle class.

That's not true in reality but on a mathematical chart it could play out like that. A hundred bucks over that poverty isn't really middle class.

I don't want to get too far off topic but if asked I can explain that last sentence.

Overpopulation? Obviously there's a chance of becoming over populated. If you add people to the country the land can be developed further but the country isn't getting any bigger the square miles are the same. Can we accommodate more population? Yes we could. Is there danger of over population? Yes, not in a year or two though.

Its a very tricky situation. I understand explaining the law is not tricky but the justice in it can be very complex.

Not exactly. My point was more like this; In the media they've implied or outright said "They do jobs Americans won't stoop to do." That's total garbage, because there's people passed over for those jobs to hire immigrants instead. My aunt picks blueberries in fields in the summer because she helps run a berry farm with somebody, right after 10 hours in a factory. You see what I mean? What's the reasoning behind the made up, "We're too good" crap? Ok, so we have more modern methods since back when, but that doesn't mean nobody here is willing when it's necessary to do it the hard way.

[Classicblast]

May 10, 2010 23:15:43 GMT -5 Demona said:

Not exactly. My point was more like this; In the media they've implied or outright said "They do jobs Americans won't stoop to do." That's total garbage, because there's people passed over for those jobs to hire immigrants instead.

I agree the media embellishes the situation because the media can really suck. When you've had articles written about you from someone who doesn't have any idea what they're talking about is really upsetting. That's another discussion.

I think it's both though. There are Americans who wouldn't stoop to do various things. Obviously not as many as the media wants to tell us. And illegals are hired because their labor is less expensive.

I'm with you that what the press says is not entirely true on this issue but I don't think it's entirely false either.

[Slayzie]

I don't like your system, but compared with ours it's great. Our government likes to lock refugees up in detention centers and refer to them on the same level as illegal immigrants, in spite of the fact that we have signed UN agreements to accept them into our country. They get away with this because a disappointing number of Australians are very, very racist, and not allowing foreigners into the country regardless of their reasons for coming here is a great way for our politicians to gain support from the ignorant masses.

[Phil]

So what would be a good balance? Lock them up in a home isn't so good. I realize you don't support that, but they have broken the law but not really been a menace to society.

There's the round up and send back, arrest, try to process as citizens if you can find a sponsor and usually somebody would be willing to sponsor, or simply ignore. Are there any other options I did not mention?

[Antonio]

Legal Immigrants are okay my grand parents came from Cuba learned english and adapted, illegal not okay and we should get rid of them by any means necessery sorry to sound so cold about it but if you live in my state you would see how much of a burden it really is I was liberal about it but I'm seeing it for what it really is.