Conspiracy throry aka we didnt start the fire

[Kimm]

Conspiracy theory was discussed a few days ago in a class I teach.

There are some conspiracy theorists about the September 11, 2001 attacks. Some of them suggest that the planes were not legitimately hijacked. Some say they were but the Air Force did not pursuit because it was the excuse we were waiting for to retaliate. Some others say that there were no planes at all and its all filmage of media government conspire.

The third seems the most outlandish even though I am not a conspirator anyway. I can doubt all of the 3 but that is the easiest to doubt.

I also might say having studied history very carefully that like the Billy Joel song "We Didnt start the Fire" these beliefs are nothing new.

Its generally taught that Lee Harvey Oswald shot President John Kennedy in Texas in November of 1963. Oswald himself was murdered before much could be learned about his reasons.

Conspirators were on the job and 46 years later still are. Some say that it was a plot with the KGB the CIA, other organizations. Some go as far as to say Oswald was a Russian agent look alike that took his place. His body has twice been exhumed both times the report was this is the body of Lee Harvey Oswald.

The next phase was to say he was hired or hypnotized to perform for the KGB or CIA. And then Jack Ruby was hired or hypnotized to kill Oswald so he cant talk and secrets cant be revealed or figured out; Some say that Ruby was terminally ill =, he did die of cancer while awaiting trial. So he could be paid and leave his family lots of money and probably not live lone enough to face serious punishment. And besides what do you do with a prisoner who is terminally ill? Execute him?

I am still not a buyer into the theory but I can see the reason for it.

The USS Maine was attacked presumably bringing up the Spanish-American war. The Maine was sunk in Havana Harbor. Some people have concluded or suggested that the Maine exploded due to a malfunction but this was just the excuse the government was looking for to declare war. Some others suggested US forces blew the ship up.

That happened in 1898.

The death of Presidents James Garfield, William McKinley and Zachary Taylor have also rose some suspicion of conspiracy.

[Alan]

I don't believe in the conspiracy theories in the same elaborate ways others do but I do have some conspiracy belief in the ways that I am do not think the government tells the truth about it all. Not the whole truth anyhow.

I also think events cloud the truth as they happen making it almost impossible for us years later to sort it out in the exact proper order. The whole uncut truth might not really be possible to put in proper prospective. Varried groups piece together a belief on how it happened and you decide who you think is most accurate.

There's another conspiracy story in Roswell New Mexico 1947. That will never be known for sure. The story goes that a ufo craft crashed in Roswell killing 4 or 5 passengers I've heard different answers about how many bodies were found. That story goes that the military quarantined the area until they were sure that all pieces no matter how small were picked up and all clues were removed.

Some others say an airforce test plane crashed and that's why the area was quarrentined. The parts all needed to be picked up in case of any consequences from the crash. The fact that it was a top secret allowed a made up story that it was a ufo crash.

Some other theory was that the airforce shot down the craft because they did not know what it was. Then the marked area was to remove the trail but also hoping that retaliation strikes would be kept there and not spread elsewhere but no such strikes were ever made.

I don't know what I believe.

I probably believe the 1st story more than the others. I do believe there is other space travel from other worlds. I hesitate to say that because it can sound outlandish to a lot of people.

[Kimm]

I havent studied the Roswell, New Mexico story in detail but I am certainly aware of it. I think its a good point that theres more than we are told about that story and the others too.

Im sure sometimes they think theyre protecting us by trying not to let it be too extreme seeming and other media members will go the other way looking for a story. The rest of us would be unsure what to think after that happens.

[Jersey]

I'm quite vocal about my disagreements with conspiracy theories of many kinds, especially those that lack supporting evidence and ones that are spouting from the mouths of left-wing communist radicals. *cough Michael Moore cough*.

Nov 27, 2009 21:38:11 GMT -5 Kimm said:

There are some conspiracy theorists about the September 11, 2001 attacks. Some of them suggest that the planes were not legitimately hijacked. Some say they were but the Air Force did not pursuit because it was the excuse we were waiting for to retaliate. Some others say that there were no planes at all and its all filmage of media government conspire.

These are the ones that literally make my blood boil. Left wing hatred of George Bush has constantly claimed that due to his war-hawk ideology and desire to start conflict over in the middle east, as well as claims that Bush was a dictator in disguise who was willing to kill and maim American citizens with wives, husbands and children is just unbelievably anti-democracy and anti-American. Our struggles in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq have cost us over 5000 soldiers, which means 5000 volunteers (not draftees) died defending America and all that we believe. If Bush really wanted to kill Americans, he would have reinstated the draft.

Only radical dictators and ancient societies have been responsible for killing their own people. *cough Stalin cough*. If Bush had truly been directly responsibly for the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the American people would have sent him away to prison or executed him for high treason. Not elected him to a second term. Dolts.

Nov 27, 2009 21:38:11 GMT -5 Kimm said:

Its generally taught that Lee Harvey Oswald shot President John Kennedy in Texas in November of 1963. Oswald himself was murdered before much could be learned about his reasons.

Conspirators were on the job and 46 years later still are. Some say that it was a plot with the KGB the CIA, other organizations. Some go as far as to say Oswald was a Russian agent look alike that took his place. His body has twice been exhumed both times the report was this is the body of Lee Harvey Oswald.

The next phase was to say he was hired or hypnotized to perform for the KGB or CIA. And then Jack Ruby was hired or hypnotized to kill Oswald so he cant talk and secrets cant be revealed or figured out; Some say that Ruby was terminally ill =, he did die of cancer while awaiting trial. So he could be paid and leave his family lots of money and probably not live lone enough to face serious punishment. And besides what do you do with a prisoner who is terminally ill? Execute him?

The Lee Harvey Oswald murder of President Kennedy is taught in schools because that is exactly what happened. Oswald was a communist who had at one time defected to the Soviet Union. A pro-Castro radical, he later returned to the United States with his Soviet wife in tow. He was considerably disliked in his own community, and when he heard that the Kennedy motorcade would be passing through a nearby town, he decided to hide in the book depository where he worked and use his military trained sniper skills to kill the President. his reason? To punish Kennedy for embarassing the Soviet Union in the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Grassy Knoll and all that other crap did not factor in whatsoever because it isn't even plausible. The Mythbusters were even able to debunk the "magic bullet" conspiracy that stated there was a second shooter. There wasn't. Get over it.

Jack Ruby is a mystery to all because his true reasons were unknown to all except him. People can speculate all they want over his reasons for shooting Oswald; nobody knows for sure what they actually were.

Nov 27, 2009 21:38:11 GMT -5 Kimm said:

The USS Maine was attacked presumably bringing up the Spanish-American war. The Maine was sunk in Havana Harbor. Some people have concluded or suggested that the Maine exploded due to a malfunction but this was just the excuse the government was looking for to declare war. Some others suggested US forces blew the ship up.

This falls under the same vein as the 9/11 conspiracies. Left-wing history revisionists would love to have the American public believe that the United States has been directly responsible for all the worlds suffering and wars through military insurrection and foreign policy. Why wouldn't they want to say that an obvious Spaniard attack on a U.S. warship, a dreadful mistake on their part or not, was an attack nonetheless?

People have a tendency to look for faults in arguments and evidence to the contrary that seem make sense, but often don't hold water. Take the moon landings for instance. Let me put it this way: Why would our government spend more money on a coverup, instead of less money to actually do it? Also, you have to consider the thousands of NASA employees that were involved in the project. Not a single one has come forward to say that it was all a farce. NOT ONE. Imagine the monetary resources the government would have to use to keep all those employees quiet. It wouldn't happen!

There is also the often demonstrated proof of the landing by the equipment left behind by the mission. In the exact same locations as specified by NASA, all one has to do is watch an astronomer with a powerful pinpointing laser bounce it off the communications dish of the old lander. I personally gave my brother an earful over this once when he stated he believed the landings were fake.

To close, I'll state that those who are behind conspiracy theories usually have an agenda to push. Take Michael Moore for instance. A self-admitted left-wing socialist and consistant America-hating radical, used his film Faherenheit 9/11 to push the "George Bush did 9/11" propaganda bullcrap. This comes from a creature that is stoutly against those with self-made riches and large corporations (essentially anti-capitalist), who says that he wants to see corporations shut down and the rich forced to spread the wealth to the poor. Yet Michael Moore continues to reel in massive monetary sales from his propaganda films. The man is a hypocrite, thank you very much. Also, Americans who listen to a man who says: "The dumbest Brit is still many times smarter than the smartest American", are completely lost I'm sorry to say. I promise I'll live to see the day Michael Moore chokes on a triple whopper with extra cheese from Burger King while also having a massive stroke and heart attack all at the same time.

Those who push conspiracy theories usually have an agenda to push. That's the bottom line.

[Jason O'Lewa]

i dont know about all this some of it is kind of scary
were there consperaceay beleavers with pearl harber too?
that was a good reason to get in world war 2
there was less filming then how would we know they were really japanese planes or that they were not planes that were seized by england or the us to use as a fake attack

i am not saying that but thats what a consperacy believer could say

i dont agree about consperacey but I can understand fake film claimed on 9-11-01 but theres a lot of people in new york city that were standing on sidewalks and in other buildings that actually saw the planes hit the buildings how can they tell them there were no planes hitting the towers

[Kimm]

Thats what I mean. Theres some cover up in everything even if its to prevent further knowledge of the governments next move but to try to convince me the whole thing is a scam? I cant buy that at all.

[Phil]

Jesse Ventura says its a conspiracy!

I like Jesse mostly but sometimes I think he is far off the wall.

[Classicblast]

I have a tough time imagining how some people can see it as not being real. I guess we never want to believe something like that. But I think it was very real and too close to home.

[Phil]

The thing I have heard all my life about Pearl Harbor is that there were rumors of a possible air strike but didn't believe it. Similar things said about New York City at 9/11/01.

That's possible to think it's not possible. But that's how you get hurt.

I can't see the plot being an inside job but like Kimm said some people always think that.

[Mahnarch]

Holy Crap!!!

Jesse "The Mind" Ventura has gotten old!

[Classicblast]

This is how I remember him looking most.

Didn't he have punk rock multi-colored hair for a time? I think he did.

[Mahnarch]

This is how I remember him..

[Classicblast]

Ventura always changed his get up though. He even said that on Larry King he likes to change his overall look now and then. Growing facial hair, shaving it off, changing the color of his hair. I think he's kind of gone natural this time though.

[Phil]

I liked it when he hosted the segment called 'The Body Shop' and he would end it with 'that's the Body Shop for this week the pleasure was yours.'

[Mahnarch]

I've met Hulk Hogan's voice twin!!

Gary at JFD South sounds just like him (his talking voice, not his "Hulkster" voice).


I was going to ask Gary to call me a "Hulkamaniac" but, I don't know him well enough, yet.


....give it time, though.

Give it time......

[Pumpkin]

Dec 24, 2009 17:25:54 GMT -5 Phil said:

I liked it when he hosted the segment called 'The Body Shop' and he would end it with 'that's the Body Shop for this week the pleasure was yours.'

I miss the Body Shop. The best one I remember was when Jesse brought out Big John Studd and King Kong Bundy. All you could see were these hulking bodies on either side of Jesse as he stood there with the microphone.

He said "I feel very SAFE standing here right now. Hulk Hogan, why don't you come out here? Tito Santana, you too"....Ah, the perfect heel. Jesse, not much of a ring worker physically, but one of the best interviews and interviewers in the business.

[Phil]

I like Ventura. In fact, the thing was it was a departure to make a heal an announcer. And he always mocked the jobbers. When Monsoon or McMahon would say 'should be an outstanding match up.' Jesse would reply with something like 'Oh yeah I'm glad I didn't put money on this 1.' or 'if you think this guy has such great potential why don't you become his manager?'

You're right he was an all right but not super wrestler but his personality skills were great. 'Hulk Hogan, you only got a draw with Stallone in Rocky III I would have trounced that little guy!'

[Mahnarch]

I remember a news story from shortly after he became Governor:

He got pulled over by a Sheriff for "racing away from a stop" (he floored it from a stop sign) but, he never went over the speed limit.

His response to the news reporters was: "There is a Speed Limit but, there is no law that says how quickly you can get to it!" (not verbatim)


Jesse is awesome.